Jazerai Allen-Lord from Crush and Lovely on Reebok Classic's "It's a Man's World" (crossed out) campaign

Brian Bosché:
Hey everyone. This is Brian Bosche with the Creative BTS podcast. I am extremely excited to welcome on Jazerai Allen-Lord. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Thank you for having me. This is exciting.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. Thank you so much for the DM. I've met a lot of the guests through Twitter, which is amazing. I've been following you for a while. Really excited for this because it's not quite the marketing creative focus but more of the product design, product creation process that goes into an actual physical good. Not just something going out on an additional campaign. To start off, I'd just love to learn a little bit more about your background professional, personal. Give us a sense of who you are.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. I started working in the sneaker industry as a professional in 2006. I started as a journalist, as a writer under the complex umbrella at Kicks on Fire. From there, I tried my hand at everything and ended up leaving media in 2016 as the director of operations for Kicks on Fire, and relocating to New York City and overseeing a fashion production house. Kind of taking the skills that I learned in messaging and in marketing and in product launch and moving them into street wear and apparel, sunglasses. Pretty much everything for a outlet store called Slamxhype.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
From there, I really decided that I liked to link stories, whether that be in activations or through product or on the editorial side and kind of decided that the best way for me to do that was as a partner to the brands. Not as a media outlet or a reporter, if you will, but to go into brands and make change from the inside out. That's what I've spent the last five years, I would say, doing in the agency world. I started at Crush & Lovely on the agency side. Over the past year, Crush has separated into two separate companies.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Our sister company that I founded is called True to Size. We build stories true to size, true for the consumer. Fit for your specific purpose and telling true stories from the heart of communities. That has been, I feel like, full circle for me in sneakers. Starting as a young girl who was a consumer and a sneaker lover at 11 to now partnering with New Balance and Reebok, Adidas at times on activation, strategic messaging, product roll out, schools, and different solutions to really speak to the core consumer in the sneaker market.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. Dive in a little bit more to the True to Size. You named the company after it. What does that actually mean in order to represent the actual person that will be buying the product, using the product, enjoying that product?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
True to Size is actually a sneaker term, which is why... It's a footwear development term. That's one of the reasons I picked it. It actually has this industrial, historical piece to design and development. Being true to size, or as consumers we nickname it TTS. Being TTS means if you're a six, it's a six. Instead of, "Oh, at Nike I wear a six and a half. At Reebok I wear a five. Here I wear..." No. True to size means it's true to size. A six is a six. An eight is an eight. A 12 is a 12, right? You don't have to worry about it. You just know that it's true to size.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
In the marketing world, what I've seen, especially over the past seven years or so most definitely is a lot of stories that are not necessarily organically put out. It's a lot of chasing the cool. It's a lot of hype driven, who has 200,000 followers today? What can we do with them? Not really an appreciation of the story that you're trying to tell and these key messages that you're trying to deliver to the consumer. Really speaking to the consumer and instead of bringing them to your world, it's meeting the consumer in the middle. There's already a point of alignment. The consumer is already purchasing from you but are you speaking to them? Do you know who they are?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
In this climate, I think particularly what we're going through now, community has never been more important. The humanization of people away from being a dot on your data chart is really relevant. People are watching whose stores are still open. People are watching how you're handling your patrons. Are you charging them for that gym membership? Those types of things.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, how are you adding value in more and more difficult times.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly. For me, sneakers is a very hype market, no matter if it's a Jordan retro or a Yeezy or an Off-White. There's a hype element that drives the need and the want particularly that you see in sneakers. I really wanted to bring the community back in to sneaker culture. Sneaker culture used to be a very niche segmented, really communal genre or niche community, a real community. Because it's now pop culture essentially and it's mass consumed, a lot of the stories that we see coming out are not necessarily hitting the mark. They aren't speaking true to sneaker culture.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Sneaker culture was built on stories. We have the flu games are the flu games for a reason. Right? The [inaudible 00:06:34] are the [inaudible 00:06:35] for a reason. We, as the community, assign these names to the shoe and we give them value. The brands now have attempted to do that on their own. They're very fragmented stories, not thought out stories and stories that sometimes are just fails. You know? Particularly for women, particularly doing black history month. It's just a lot of not thought out, if you will, ideas coming to market.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
For us and my small team, we focus on that. We ask is there a metric you're trying to move? At the end of the day we know that the business, while they may want to do the right thing and the heartfelt thing, they want to know why this matters for their stakeholders. New customer acquisition is one. It's new customer acquisition. Is there a metric that you want to move? Is there a KPI you're trying to hit? Who are you trying to talk to? How can we meet you in the middle with your consumer instead of you forcing yourself into their world?

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. Well, whatever Adidas did to 12 year old Brian who wanted those T-Mac 2s worked like a charm. My dad wouldn't let me get them. Dad, if you're listening, I still want those T-Mac 2s. You're right, it's off of hype. All the best players were wearing the T-Mac 2s. Even these 12 year olds. It just drives where it's like, okay, this is speaking to me. I want to be like that. Let's go for it. It's a great segue to the collection that you helped with Reebok. The It's a Man's World strike through, which important element of it. Would love to launch into learning more about what it takes to launch a collection, what it takes to design that. As you said, start with the strategy and what community you're going after. Can you give us a quick pitch on the actual collection and the campaign that Reebok put on?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. It's a Man's World was a two piece campaign that Reebok launched in 2019. It actually was a re do of a Venus Williams campaign from early 200s I want to say. My business partner [Mazen 00:09:05] and I were in Reebok and we were there meeting with about five to seven women from across the organization. Our intention for that first meeting was to discuss the infrastructural problems that are holding brands back from producing goods that speak authentically to women in the sneaker industry. One of the people in the room was the archive manager. Erin N is the archive manager. She brought out everything that Reebok had done for women, essentially, from the archive. This is the jazzercise.

Brian Bosché:
Which is a long history.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
A long history.

Brian Bosché:
You know, Reebok was one of the first. They were bigger than Nike for a time because of that.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah, exactly. They're bringing out the jazzercise stuff, the 54-11s. We see this Venus Williams, the campaign shot. My business partner said, "It's so wild that it's been almost 20 years. We could run this campaign today and it would be equally as relevant." That sparked a conversation. Inside of the room Darla [DeGrase 00:10:18] who's no longer at Reebok but did incredible work at Reebok. We would go into, my team and I would go in to brands and have impact happy hours. We would say if you're not happy about what's happening here, you don't have to wait for your company or your boss to make change. You can make a commitment to yourself to make a change. You could take on an MT. you could create a pipeline program. You can open conversation. There's a number of things you can do to push conversations forward.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Darla DeGrase made an impact commitment and committed to creating a diverse pipeline within Reebok. Part of her initiative and getting her executive sponsor and all of that, we walked through together. She invited us into one of the meetings, that was part of her initiative. We had this very candid conversation. Product development was in the room, women's design was in the room, apparel was in the room, and performance was in the room. I think E-com marketing was in the room. We just talked through a lot of complaints that women have had over the years. Sizing, color offering, there's a whole term: pink it and shrink it. It's a known thing amongst women in the industry. You know, I'm having this conversation with this team at Reebok of women.

Brian Bosché:
When does this happen? Is this 2019? How early in the process did these type of conversations happen?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Oh my gosh. We went in the year before. The shoe release November of 2019, it was the first shoe of the pack. We went in the August before, so August of 2018.

Brian Bosché:
Wow, yeah. So long lead times on this.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Long lead times because brands... People know what they're going to develop at least 18 months out.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. It's different with the physical goods, with any apparel item because you actually have to go through production. It's not just click publish on social media.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It's sampling and it's compliance. It's all of these things. A brand will typically know about 18 to 21 months out what is going to roll for that season. That is a big point of leverage for storytelling because a lot of times a strategist and even the person that's in charge of the brand identity is not in these conversations. These products are being developed by the engineering team, the product development design in that silo category. Not until it's literally cleared for production are we saying, like, now how are we going to sell it? What's the story?

Brian Bosché:
It's a little backward.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. You have to create a-

Brian Bosché:
There's not brief before. In this case, they did a good job of actually bringing in the strategy side before any of that happened, it sounds like.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly. This particular pack was, especially because we're at the end of the year and we can't even really lock anything in in August because Q1 opens up. That's really when you're supposed to put it in. You're not supposed to really start something at the close of a fiscal year. You know? The whole process was actually, I'm so blessed that Reebok as the little sister to Adidas, they're able to do more disruptive things. One of those things is being able to blur the lines and create their own processes and do things a little bit differently. That's what we needed to see. We need to see things being done differently. In this particular case, it was. We went in in August. When we went in and Mazen made that comment, they said, "We actually developed an in line pack. We plan to launch it in 2019. Can we show it to you?" It kind of-

Brian Bosché:
Can you define in line pack for people who aren't as familiar?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
... Yes. In line pack is a shoe or product that you would see drop in line at retail. It's not something that is... Not the Yeezy. Nothing that is going to be hard to get, not a collab. Not an E-community only. An in line is sitting in Jimmy Jazz, it's sitting in Dick's, it's at Nordstrom. It's the general selection that you're able to buy as a wholesaler and put it to your store. They created an in line pack for five shoes for the It's a Man's World striked out. They said, "Can we show it to you and tell us what you think?" We looked at it and I said I really believed that, especially a campaign like this, it's important that we are telling stories that haven't been told. I feel that the Bella Hadid is highly amplified and nothing wrong with that story, but we need to have other stories to sit next to it.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Particularly I feel dark skin black women. A lot of times we see black women amplified in sneakers. It's a racially ambiguous light skinned girl with curly hair. That's the one voice that they give women of color in sneakers. There's a diversity of thought piece similar to what you just said about T-Mac. If you play basketball and you're a male, you have an option to play as Paul George, Kevin Durant, Lebron, Jordan, Kobe's. There's endless amounts of basketball personalities for you to model your life after.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. You pick the personalities almost over the actual performance of the shoe a lot of the time.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly.

Brian Bosché:
I'm a Lebron guys versus a KD guy.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly. With women, we speak to them in two voices. Glam girl and athlete. There's no in between. We don't have 15 options of personalities to choose from. That is a huge misstep in understanding and speaking to women in a genuine way. I flagged some things. Like, one, I would like to see these shoes not dropped as a women's shoe. I think women that need to be designing for everybody. I think women need to design unisex. I think they need to be looking like colors that you see in line instead of these pinks and neon's.

Brian Bosché:
The pink and shrink.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Glitter and the patterns and then all of this. No, we want this to look regular, too. We want regular shoes also. We want good, premium materials. We want to be treated like the men. For me it was important that the women behind the scenes that work in sneakers were amplified, as well. There's plenty of women that are developing shoes. Plenty of women doing tech design. You know, plenty of women that are actively devoted to this and we go and cast a model. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
When I said that, they said, "Would you be willing to do product?" I said, "Well, I never had a dream to do product and I think my story is heavily amplified. I'm a racially ambiguous light skin black woman. How is that creating change?" Yes, I'll do the pat if other women... I'll do a shoe if other women can do a shoe. They said, "Do you have friends that are like you?" I'm like, "Of course. I know thousands of women like me." They're like, "Are they international?" Of course, we're all over the world. You know? They said, "Well, if you want to take a stab at it, let's go."

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It was a very different process. It wasn't cast, which 95% of campaigns are. These were my real friends who are really from the community who are really working and you felt that in the campaign. You feel it in the messaging. People that are from the community know that and they see it. I mean, every one has done well. My shoes sold out in Australia. I've never even been to Australia. It was sold out in 24 hours there. I was like, "Oh my gosh."

Brian Bosché:
That's insane, yeah.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
There's a want for it. You know? It wasn't my opinion that I took in to Reebok. It was the thousand, we're on Twitter together. You see the things I'm saying. It's the thousands of women who have been tweeting me and Instagram DM-ing me and emailing me and asking questions at speaking events. I'm their megaphone. It was a risk, you know?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I think a lot of people don't understand from the brand side that it is a risk. There's no data that says we should invest in this. There's no data because women in sneakers shop men's first. You're not capturing our purchases. You're not funding our campaigns. You really don't know. You're blindly taking a risk on this idea of just what these women are saying. For me, the win of that was that we now have the data. The biggest win of the pack is having the data that says this sells at the rate that it did and that people want it. Now we have a starting point for actual impact. It won't be so risky the next time somebody wants to do it.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. Well, it kind of combines the things you were saying earlier about feeling like the actual brand is speaking to you and your unique situation. When you're in a history of not going after those types of markets or target customers, there is no data. A common theme on my interviews through these podcasts are brands that take risk and hire talented people to do these creative things usually reap their rewards. You know, they take the risk. They do something different. It makes a huge impact on the customer saying, "I'm being listened to. I identify with this. I'm going to support it because it's a brand that's actually taking the risk on me." It's a pretty amazing story that they were able to do that with you.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It was all the way around. Before we did the sneaker deal, they saw me on Instagram. Somebody else from Reebok had seen me on Instagram and I was in a pair of Shaqnosis, a pair of Amazon sweatpants and my college hoodie from [crosstalk 00:22:25]. I said, "I remember being bullied my whole life for dressing like this and now girls wear $1000 sweatpants and call it athleisure." Reebok, a designer, they started tagging each other. That became another conversation. It also set the stage. That's why I encourage everybody use your voice and your platforms. I'm not somebody that has 50,000 followers. I'm on the lower scale of the influencer world. Using your voice and speaking your truth is the first step to really creating a ripple. You never know what is going to happen from that.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, yeah. The right people usually recognize no matter how big your audience is, which is good to see they did in this case. If you can take a step back for your role and the elements of this project, you took on not only the strategy side up front, what do we do with this in line, but also an actual... You designed a shoe. You were one of the people in the collab. Do you want to go into the different elements of this just because these campaigns can get obviously pretty complex? What were the different elements that were actually built out? What was your role in those elements?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. In the product development side, each of us had the creative freedom to choose the silhouette in Reebok's archive that we wanted to design.

Brian Bosché:
Club C, great choice. Love that one. That was my favorite. My wife and I both went right to that one. We were like, "Oh, we love that one." I'm like, "Oh, that's hers. Great."

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Thank you. Yeah.

Brian Bosché:
You just need 12s in men. Next time that's released then I can actually have them.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
For me, I wanted to choose a silhouette that spoke to who I was today. I actually wear the Club C, the $85 Club C every single day of my life as a mom. I work from home. It's the easiest for me. I wanted to do something natural and authentic to me. I wanted to, for me, use premium materials so you see the tumbled leather tongue and the sueded panels around the [inaudible 00:24:44] and these types of things. I removed the perfs on the toe because the leather, I'm a Cali convert to New York City. A lot of my sneakers I can't even wear he because of the leather.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It's like, I really put intention behind the design where I could, trying to make... I had them weather proofed. Not only are the perfs removed but at least you can try to stay dry outside. The comfort level on the Club C is unmatched. I kept the tumbled leather so that they would age well and that they would break in, if you will. Each girl chose a silhouette and you essentially get a coloring book, if you will. A coloring book iteration of the insole and the shoe. You get it from all angles.

Brian Bosché:
This is coming from Reebok, Reebok product manager or someone who's saying, "Hey, here are your different options you can put together?"

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly. On the product side we had Tomisin who was the product lead. Then there was Alejandra who is the tech designer. She's going to be the person that when I'm done with my terrible doodles, she's going to [crosstalk 00:26:04] a real cad, if you will. Then the account manager. The person that's managing the entire project from start to finish is Kristen. Tomisin sent us a bunch of the stencils. We had about three weeks with the stencils individually. We created mood boards. You create the mood board and then you draw on the shoe. You submit your mood board to Alejandra with your drawings. Then Alejandra will put it all together.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It was varied in the stages, like it always is. I am great at AI. I'm not a full fledged designer. I couldn't flip a Club C. That's not my forte. I'm not a tech designer either. To get it, Alejandra will take your inspiration and dependent on how far you went in the design, she would either design something from her perspective based on your inspo or she will design whatever you drew exactly. From my understanding, I'm very extra. I had a 17 page mood board.

Brian Bosché:
Amazing.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
They were like, "You gave us a lot to work with, Jaz."

Brian Bosché:
Let's process this.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Thanks, or not. From there, Alejandra takes them. This process was also a little bit different as well because when I went in to say yes I will do this and here's the girls I think that will be a fit, it's reaching out to those girls individually, making sure that those girls are going to be down for a little bit different of a process because we're trying something new. This is a new timeline. It's a new way of doing this.

Brian Bosché:
Was it condensed? Was that why it was different? What made it different?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It was condensed and split apart. In order for us to meet production sampling, we had to get everything in before February because China goes on their new year and production closes. We had to get everything in. The shoe wasn't actually going to be dropping for a year. We had a lot of dead time in the middle. There was a rush to sampling.

Brian Bosché:
To get it through, yeah.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
To get it at least the initial iteration through. It was that quickness of, okay, Kimberly. Are you down? Sanne, are you down?

Brian Bosché:
You have to get them to agree and approve by Reebok. Then you launch into the whole process, yeah.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly. They have to agree. Reebok has to agree. We all have to agree. The contracts have to go out. Legal has to be involved. It's all of that.

Brian Bosché:
That's a lot to manage in a short time.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yes. Kirsten, the account manager, she had... It takes people. We say at Crush we don't work with brands, we work with people. That's important because this team of four women really drove this pack from their heart. They didn't have to do the extra work. They didn't have to get it in before production closed in China. They wanted to because they wanted to make change because they believed in the message. There are people that show up to their job from nine to five and go home and watch a movie and turn off their computer. There's people that live it. You know? They are women that live it.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It was all these perfect pieces coming together. The other piece that's different also is that in other development situations, it would be different developers, different designers. You may not actually know the person that's going to. It might go to Alejandra but then Leo might work on it too. This person might work on it, too.

Brian Bosché:
This you got matched up more individually?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Because that was one of my holding points. I want a woman of color to design my shoe. I want everybody that's working on my shoe to be female. I want women to be working on this shoe. I want a woman of color who understands my story, understands-

Brian Bosché:
And your 17 page mood board.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
... Get my references. I want her to design my shoe. She designed all the shoes. Those little pieces that were important to me. Did we take every opportunity to amplify a voice that we could? In this situation, we did. Now Reebok had to give a lot in order to do that. They had to respect the process and understand where I'm coming from, listen to me, why is this important to my community and be willing to do something differently, and they were. You know, because of that too, it's one person.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
We have to come in now to do edits and review individually for a weekend, if you will. It was during the week but it was a three day visit. Each of us then came into the Reebok office to meet with Alejandra and to meet with the whole team. I don't know if this is something they do for everybody but they walked us through the entire process. They showed us where the molds were made. They showed us every piece that our shoe was going to hit and explained to us what was going to happen, why we were there. In that same three days, we shot all the campaigns, the individual interviews from the campaign, so our individual videos. We were actually editing our design there.

Brian Bosché:
That was the condensed review period in person? All of you came for that one weekend to go through all the campaigns, reviews? A really condensed, got it.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Individually because Alejandra is one woman.

Brian Bosché:
Oh, so you each had your own weekends?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yep.

Brian Bosché:
Or your own few days? Wow, yeah. You're right, how else would Alejandra do that if you were all vying for the attention?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
To give us the attention that we need also for this product would need two weeks. We had Tomisin as product manager was in charge of that, scheduling who was coming when based on whose samples were ready. They had to show us our sample, show us our design for these things.

Brian Bosché:
Dive in there before we get too far. You are putting to actual the concepts together. You send over the mood boards. You put your sketches and everything together. She's using Illustrator to kind of maybe mock those up or actually turn it into CAD files and other programs. You're kind of going back and forth. That's usually remote, correct?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yep.

Brian Bosché:
Okay, so you're going back and forth remote. Are you just doing that over email? Let's nerd out on the actual process. Just emails back and forth?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
And attachments, yes.

Brian Bosché:
Oh, that's brutal. That's why slope was a business, to make that process easier with proofing. You're doing it remote. Then once you actually get it to production, which was in February, to get the samples. They have to send it to production and then you get the samples?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah, so in February-

Brian Bosché:
Okay, and then you come back after that.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
... Yeah. What we saw was CADs and a physical sample that they made there at the headquarters. Not something that went through production.

Brian Bosché:
Oh, got it. They can do it on site so it's a little bit-

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly.

Brian Bosché:
... Yeah. The faster prototyping.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
A little prototype, if you will, that they used from a shell. It wasn't necessarily all the way built out, if you will. Then we edit from there. From there, what happened was they ended up using my original... The original CAD that Alejandra had sent back to me was a purple. Everywhere that you saw green, there was purple instead. Purple is one of my favorite colors also. It looked really good but, for me, again I'm designing with strategic intention. I'm not designing for what I like. I'm thinking, like, I can't do purple. I need to do olive. I need to do neutrals. I need this to look like, unfortunately saying, I need it to look like a man designed it. I need this to be for everybody, you know? That's really my aesthetic. That's the message that I'm trying to break through here is that women can design for everybody.

Brian Bosché:
The strategy decides that.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah.

Brian Bosché:
You know, if you hadn't established that up front, which it sounds like some companies if it's just a little mismatch in the process don't establish the core strategy behind what the end product should be. That dictated it, which is the right way it sounds like.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Then really the empathy from the brand. It was like, "Hey, I don't think I want to do this color because here's my reasons." They're like, "You're right. Let's look these leathers of these olives. Let's look through browns." There's this missing link, I think, a lot of the times as a consumer we feel like they don't care. They don't want us to have it. Really it's just they don't understand. We're not talking to each other. She changed all the colors. There were some compliance, you go through compliance also at the time. Give me one second. I'm going to stop talking while I plug in my computer.

Brian Bosché:
No worries.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I wanted to issue a pause for a moment.

Brian Bosché:
That's okay, we're all working from home.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. All right.

Brian Bosché:
The audience will give us a break.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah, so going in to when we saw the CADs and we were getting ready to go through compliance, that was my first time experiencing how many people actually work on a shoe. I'm thinking... A lot of times people think, like, "Jaz did a shoe so Jaz executed the whole thing." It's like, "Wow. No, Jaz did this part. Then Alejandra picked it up and did this part." Now I can't remember what the woman's name was. She was a woman of color as well. She came in and said, "I'm here to do your compliance check." She's going through my shoe.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I originally, the hang tags originally were a pin and it was going to be a pin on the eyestay right above where the toe box is so that you can remove the pin and wear it on a jacket or something like this. Found out that that pin does not pass compliance and not able to do that because you can't sell something with a pin on it because a kid could hurt themselves. All these things you don't think about.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, that you learn through the process.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I learned that, at that time, that that's what friends and family meant. When you see people dropping as these are friends and family, it means those are shoes that didn't pass compliance. They can't sell them. That was the artist's vision, that was the original vision. We'll allow you to gift 30, 50, 100 as friends and family but we can't actually sell those.

Brian Bosché:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), that makes sense.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
We go through compliance. We're changing design again. Now I have hang tags. It's this-

Brian Bosché:
Yep, editive process.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
... From there, we take another break. Then around June, I want to say, is when the final samples are done. Up until this point, there's two rounds of samples. I had seen them because I work out of Boston a lot. I have a lot of clients and I work with Reebok separately on other things as well. I stop by there every time-

Brian Bosché:
[inaudible 00:39:06], yeah.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
... To see, is my shoe here? Is it ready?

Brian Bosché:
Yep, yep. I would go there every time. Show me my shoe.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I had seen my two samples. The other girls hadn't seen their shoes yet. In June, we came together all of us and we all got to see the collection together for the first time. We shot all the in line shots and all of our individual collab shots. Yeah, from there, they started rolling out in August. August 24, I want to say.

Brian Bosché:
Yep. You released it designer by designer, right? It was kind of a role out with each designer? Let's talk about the outcomes a little bit because there's been a lot of attention on this campaign, [inaudible 00:39:59]. Yeah, what was the reception as you rolled out the different collab designs?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
That actually was something new as well because sneakers normally roll, a pat comes out together. Everybody, these five shoes are available today.

Brian Bosché:
Well, sort of. Not in my 12, Jazerai. I'll have to wait. We'll talk off line about that.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yes. We're going to get you right, Brian. We're going to get you right. You know, normally they drop Valentine's Day pack or they come out together. In this case, Tomisin and Kristen really felt passionately about highlighting each story and making this a four or five month campaign that continued on. We started on September 1st with mine. They dropped roughly around the first of the month throughout February, ending with Sanne's Girl on Kicks in February. It was super interesting to see how it kind of allowed for each girl to have a breathing space and to own that moment herself. The stories, also, it allowed the stories to stand alone. That's the beauty of the pack. What's tying us together is really our tie to our communities. They don't visually look the same.

Brian Bosché:
No, very different.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
They're very different. That was purposeful. I wanted to make sure that each one of these stories was told. The illustrator, the painter, the museum curator, the photographer. It was important to me that all of these roles had their moment alone and that you could appreciate each story for what it was.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. Like we discussed earlier, you pick shoes on personalities. You have to actually, you know, if you give that time to develop that personality of that shoe, people are much more likely to identify with it and want to buy it and wear them. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense based on the initial strategy.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
You know, Wonder Girl for example did an all black running shoe.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, I love those too.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I love. I mean, those were my favorite.

Brian Bosché:
The smiley face on the back.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yes.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, I love those.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
That's my aesthetic is streamlined, really clean, minimal, kind of just like I can wear this with everything every day. Then Kimberly Drew did a red and purple homage to black women in fashion. It's like, I want that too for a different moment in my life.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, so different.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It's a different use, a different moment. Then Distorted does one. Distorted was a special relationship to me because I had been mentoring her since I was in media. That was a very full circle, aligned relationship that people saw come to fruition also. They remember when she was a girl painting in her bedroom and I would feature her on Kicks on Fire. Now 10 years later here we are in this campaign. Each of us have our own, very niche specific audiences. We're friends but we're not the same.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I think that that allowed Reebok's reach to just kaboom underneath this umbrella. It was something for everybody. They're finally speaking to groups of women very intentionally that they never had spoken to before. It's bridging the gap between a Cardi B and a Maya Moore. There's a lot in between those two women. A lot of people, number one response on my Instagram was this is the first time I've bought Reebok. New customer acquisition again. They're waiting to buy.

Brian Bosché:
You hit the mark.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Yeah. You're not talking to them. That's why they're not buying from you because you're not talking to them.

Brian Bosché:
The sold out shoes and the press coverage and the Quibi show are testament to how they caught on.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Exactly.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah. How does it feel to wear your own shoe? Have you talked to the other girls about that? Is it surreal trying them all on for the first time?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It's very surreal because each of us knew each other before this happened. It's kind of like very interesting to be like... It's very surreal. Like, wow, okay now we're here. It's another day. We're here with our shoes. It's weird. I have Distorted's artwork up in my sneaker display from five years ago. Now I can put her shoe next to it.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
It's these moments. It drew us closer together. These were girls that some of them I had close relationships with. Some I was talking to pretty infrequently but it opened a conversation between us that's happening regularly. This is from fashion to art to music for us to have this alliance with us is beautiful. I would say that the biggest thing for me was the amount of press that came in so many different forms because of the different personalities of women.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
I'm [inaudible 00:46:07] but we also had Man Repeller. We were on Vogue. Kimberly was in Essence in the print magazine. All of the press that typically doesn't cover this type of stuff is picking it up and recognizing this moment. Right at the end of design, in June before I had even announced the brand that I had signed with or anything, the people from the Sneakers book, I'm in the Sneakers book by Rodrigo Corral. They were doing consulting for Lena Waithe with the Quibi show.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
They had told her about what I did with Reebok and the strategic moves that I had made in there and what I was doing and this idea that I really shaped the narrative around my career over the last four years around storytelling to women, and particularly young black women. Lena was like, "I got to meet this girl." They emailed me one day, like, "Hey, did you do that to Reebok? Is it coming out this year?" I'm like, "Yeah, it's coming out this year." They're like, "We want to shoot you for Quibi. Would you be down?" I'm not that girl so I'm like, "No, I don't want to be on a show." They had sent an email from Lena describing the basis of the show. Once I heard that it was going to be surrounding the narratives of mental health, race, gender, politics, economical issues, resealing, I was like, "I'm in."

Brian Bosché:
If you haven't seen it, it's You Ain't Got These on Quibi. It's really good, every episode.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Thank you. You know, I was like, "I'm down. That's what I want to do. I want to talk." For them to cover the shoe again was amazing. There was six pairs left so you just missed it, Brian.

Brian Bosché:
I know, yeah. I did. I didn't get the Twitter DM fast enough before I looked at the catalog.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
They sold. I think the number one question now is people asking me, especially watching Quibi, what are you doing with Reebok next? I'm like, "I'm a free agent now." I can do anything with anyone. I really would like to change, next, the shopping experience. I think the climate that we're in, we're not going to be shopping mens, womens, and kids ever. I think gender is changing drastically. Clothing is changing drastically and now with the virus, the culture of influence is probably changing drastically. That's just the reality of it. I'm excited to see what will happen now that so many systems are broken. I would like to just walk in to a store and be able to shop. You know? My son is 13. He hasn't worn kids shoes for like four years. Brian, are we marketing? Who's buying the kids shoes, Brian?

Brian Bosché:
Yes, yes. I don't have kids yet but I would still... When I was eight, I still wanted those T-Mac 2s. I wanted what... I didn't want kids shoes. Who wants kids shoes?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
He doesn't fit them. That's the reality. He stopped fitting in kids sizes four years ago. That was a huge mind blow for me. I was like, oh my gosh. Even myself. I'm trying to sell this kid in kid shoes and he doesn't even wear kid shoes. He's sized out. What are we doing?

Brian Bosché:
He's going to come to you with an influencer wearing quarantine kicks and being like, "I need these quarantine kicks. Get them from me." DM you and be like, "Hey, I need these." Yeah, at 13. I could talk about this all day but I don't want to keep you too much longer. Thank you so much for coming on. I like to end all of these podcasts with a parting shot. Wisdom from the podcast or just from life in general. What's a parting shot that you'd like to leave the audience with?

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Tell your story and be unafraid. You know, I like to live life loud and I think that this is the time to do it. Live loudly, speak loudly. Use your voice and tell your story. Own your narrative before somebody else does. Stand in your uniqueness, because nobody else can be you.

Brian Bosché:
Wow, well thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on. Wish you the best through the rest of the COVID-19 pandemic as we move forward.

Jazerai Allen-Lord:
Same to you and all the listeners. Thank you so much for having me.

Brian Bosché:
Yeah, thanks. All right.